NFL Draft Discussion and Debate: Ndamukong Suh

Brett: The things I saw on tape were how high he plays and how slow off the ball he seems compared to other DT prospects I've seen out there that aren't slated to go as high as Suh. When I think of a one gap three-technique player, I think of a player that has to have that burst off the ball to attack that one gap, get into the back field and be disruptive. I don't see that type of burst and explosion in Suh, and I think that could hurt his chances of making it in the NFL


David: I have noticed that he doesn't always attack the line others such as Gerald McCoy. It has been noted that he prefers to stand up his blocker and motor through them. He didn't knife through the line like a true 3-technique, but nebraska ran a somewhat unorthodox defense under Pelini.  Furthermore, pad level is definitely a coachable skill, but the explosiveness, or lack thereof could be a concern if you are accurate. 

Brett: Pad level is a coachable skill, you are correct. But do you run the risk of making him the number one overall pick if he's not a polished product and may take a season or two develop into that elite DT that scouts are saying he is?  In the NFL, he's going to be facing bigger stronger guards that aren't going to be pushed around as easy as the college guys. Not only do those linemen know how to use their own leverage, but they're going to know how to use Suh's leverage against him. And without that pure bulk that you see in guys who tend to succeed in head to head battles, Suh could be hurt by simply trying to muscle guys like he did in college.

David: Well from a historical standpoint, seldom do DT's make a huge splash in their rookie seasons which could be a major reason for them not being selected so highly.  He isn't that highly polished product that some believe he is.  He will take some time  to develop.

But then again, he not only uses his strength, but he utiliizes his ability to beat those offensive lineman with his hands combined with tremendous balance/footwork. Those things are much harder to teach... and he is extremely smart. In today's NFL, everyone has talent. But football IQ really is what separates the good from great players.

Additionally, think about Mario Williams. The Texans used the #1 overall pick on a DE, which is a position notorious for its slow development process.  He didn't produce much his rookie year, but it seems to have paid off in full, so far.

Sure, when I first saw him, I thought he reminded me of Ngata, and even more so like Kevin Williams. Suh is extremely versatile. His skill set will make him a very good player in any system, but he isnt quite specialized for any one system.

Do you agree?  It's just hard to overlook how often he made plays in the backfield he is very disruptive. 

Brett: That is what you want from you DT: a guy who is disruptive and fits into multiple skill sets. But I don't know how truly he fits in as a five technique DE in the 3-4. Does he have enough speed to be disruptive as a DE, and does that justify his value as a Top-3 prospect in the NFL draft?  If his best skill set is as a five technique and  not as a three technique, I think that hurts his value even more because the importance of being so quick off the ball is the real key to the three technique spot.
The aspect that does play into his favor though is that he does have obvious room to gain weight without it effecting his game as much. However, I still look at some of the other guys who were considered to have a versatile skill set but have struggled to make it in the NFL.  Another Cornhusker comes to mind, and he too was drafted by the St. Louis Rams- Adam Carriker from Nebraska. I see a lot of the same skill set in Carriker that you see in Suh. Obviously Suh is the bigger, badder player and his resume shows that. But in the NFL everyone is big and bad.

David: Everyone IS big and bad as I said before.  Yet, Suh is smart- a key trait that separates the good from great players.  He won't be able to take his current game to the next level and dominate... I agree with you on that point.  The Big 12 was especially weak on good interior O-Linemen and Suh took full advantage of this.

In the Texas game, for instance. Their guards were far out matched, and Suh exploited the Longhorns' very weak interior offensive linemen all game.

There is some risk involved with picking him. But that is the case with any player. I think a creative mind will be able to find a space for him somewhere on the D-Line.  I've said before that a guy like Suh, someone without a true D-line position, could wind up revolutionizing the way we think about the position or, he could fail.  He has obvious talents, its up to the coach that picks him to find a use for that talent.

Some players just have that special something, where they always manage to beat the man they are up against. You cant really explain it, nor can they. But they get the job done. 

It certainly would be difficult to justify such a decision. Finding the right fit is a crucial element for his success in the NFL.

We have been talking in broad terms for a while. Let's get a bit more specific.

The teams that probably will be looking at Suh are St. Louis, Detroit, and Tampa.  You've said that Suh reminds you of a Haloti Ngata, Albert Haynesworth. I've said he reminds me of Ngata, Kevin Williams, and even Richard Seymour.

Brett: Detroit's defense seems to be that 4-3 two gap scheme that Jim Schwartz ran in Tennessee when he had Albert Haynesworth, and he's also been a two gap protege under Belichick and while he was in Baltimore. So does Suh  fit into Detroit's two gap scheme?  That answer to me seems to be no. He doesn't fit into a two gap scheme, especially as a 4-3 defensive end where he would be needed more to rush the passer.

David:  But I thought you said that Suh seems to be better suited for that 2-gap scheme?

Brett: Certainly his skill set better projects in the two gap scheme, but his size doesn't. The guys you mention are all big bodies, save for Seymour who is the classic prototype 5-technique DE, which Suh likely projects at. But then again, Detroit doesn't run the two-gap scheme out of the 3-4, so their DEs don't have to be the two gap players you see in a 3-4. They have to be better pass rushers, Kyle Vandenbosch as an example, a pass rusher who the Lions just grabbed.  He excels out of being in one on one situations.

David: Do you think they are looking for that pure 3-technique in the mold of a Gerald McCoy then?  I just think that Suh is a lot like Kevin Williams who is also 6'4", and about 310 pounds. He plays the 3-technique for the Vikings but its not the same 3-technique that teams like the Chicago Bears run. 

Brett: Suh may very well project as a three technique like a Kevin Williams. He certainly isn't in the same mold as a Tommie Harris or a Warren Sapp. I guess the argument boils down to, does that three technique need to primarily be a one gap attack defender? And you could argue that Suh isn't that one gap type of defender that Williams is?  That would probably be the best position for Suh, a three technique that may have the capability to rush the passer, but  isn't the same type of pass rusher that Harris or Sapp are or were.

David: Right, Suh isn't a pure 3-technique like a Warren Sapp. I think that would be Gerald McCoy's strength, since he has been compared to Sapp and Harris.

The consensus between Brett and David seems to be that Ndamukong Suh projects in the role of a Kevin Williams from the Minnesota Vikings, who plays the three technique in their more two-gap oriented Cover-2 defense.  Williams is more of a two gap defender who has that extra ability to rush the passer and collapse the pocket.

Does this fit into what the Rams are looking for out of their 4-3 defense or are they more focused on the speed and pressure that worked so well for Steve Spagnuolo with the New York Giants.  If they are focused on that speed and pass rush in a more pass oriented NFL, then Gerald McCoy may make more sense for the Rams.  Then the question moves to the Lions, and the likelihood they would pass on a player of Suh's ability seems to be pretty slim.  At the end of the day Suh probably projects to better fit into what the Lions do on defense, versus what the Rams do.

With the separation between Suh and McCoy as DT prospects not being all that much it would seem that if the Rams are in fact going to take a DT instead of a QB, then they would likely go with McCoy before they would go with Suh.

< Prev		Next >